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1. The start-up year for a very different sort of Graduate School of Education. It's a tiny subset of...
2. ...The much larger, national effort to transform teaching and teachers. That is a big subset of...
3. ...A multi-kajillion-dollar effort to improve the ludicrous odds (7% or so) of a poor kid ever getting a college diploma.

Debate Team

Posted: October 18th, 2012 | Author: | | 7 Comments »

A Brooklyn story on Schoolbook, about Achievement First High School’s debate team, via GothamSchools:

Her classmate, Eyana Walker, 16, a member of the school’s debate team who had wielded a rapid-fire manner of delivery she’d learned at a debate boot camp this past summer, said she too had been rooting for Obama by default.

“But now, I kind of want Romney to win,” she said, explaining that by studying health care, for instance, she found Romney’s idea of handing it to the states rather than the federal government more sensible. When it comes to taxes, though, she is still on the fence.

“Both sides have pros and cons,” she said.

(Mr.) DiColandrea, who also teaches Latin and literature, said that after coaching for four years at another school – before joining the faculty at Achievement First last year – he became convinced that debate is “part of the answer to the achievement gap,” something this college-oriented charter school sees as its mission to do away with.

“It’s really an equalizer,” he added.

Two thoughts.

1. I was on the debate team in high school one year. I may have been its “president.” Depending on the month, that meant I was president of anywhere a team totaling between 2 and 5 people.

There was no Mr. DiColandrea. No coaching. There must have been some nominal faculty advisor. I remember my older brother had told me you could buy pre-made “evidence cards.” I thought that was weird. We bought a whole recipe box full of them. They had arguments about unemployment — that was the debate topic for the year. We had a couple local debates, and then went to a tournament, 2-on-2.

We went up against Bronx High School of Science. I think they were top seed. Two kids just as dorky as us, but wearing suits, wheeled in 2 large file cabinets full of “evidence cards.” We proudly displayed our recipe box and tried to “make it seem a little bigger.”

Then the Bx Science kids opened. They talked very fast, speed reading aloud. We assumed they would lose just on that, because it was annoying. Turned out that was actually a preferred technique — to “spread,” to talk as fast as you can, because each “point you made” had some type of scoring value.

We may have lost by the largest margin in scholastic debate history. However, I do remember getting some excellent snacks on that trip.

2. This brings me to my second point. Folks in our business often debate the value of “extra-curricular activities.” But I think we need a new vocabulary.

a. There are “well coached extra curricular activities,” which happen to have a particularly skilled adult at the helm, like the Achievement First debate team.

b. Then there are “regular ol’ extra curriculars,” with little effective coaching input from the adults, but nonetheless, some legitimate experiential value for the kids.

Sometimes these peter out over the course of the year; kids stop showing up. Occasionally they actually create enough screwing around to create problems for school culture. But often they’re “pretty good.” In schools that strive for excellence, it can be disorienting for the teachers and leaders to set-up such activities, expecting a result that is hopefully pretty good but quite possibly so-so for all involved.

Finally, there’s the “teacher” cost and benefit of extra-curriculars. Not the cash — renting the ball fields, renting the bus, buying equipment, etc. The teacher effect. Typically small schools like ours have teachers act as coaches.

“Well-coached activities,” of course, generate teacher satisfaction. That’s a benefit. Another is the chance to build some student relationships in a different context, which can pay off in class.

But “regular ol extra curriculars” impart 2 teacher costs. There’s the obvious: time subtracted from the “real” teaching job (help fewer kids after school with homework, prepare less for class, etc). Then there’s the less obvious: it can be psychologically disorienting for the teacher to do something so-so (or worse). And particularly for new teachers who already feel so-so in their classroom, a second domain of inadequacy can make a teacher feel a second challenging front has been opened in their war to achieve success.


7 Comments on “Debate Team”

  1. 1: Sarah said at 11:32 am on October 18th, 2012:

    As a member of Match Corps XIII who currently works at Achievement First Brooklyn High School, I was excited to see this post!

    I think there is also something to be said for “relevant” extracurriculars vs. clubs that are just…extra. Dico’s debate students are learning much more about public speaking, argumentation, and poise than I picked up during my tenure as Vice President of my high school’s quilting club…

  2. 2: Sarah said at 11:33 am on October 18th, 2012:

    err, Match Corps VIII that is

  3. 3: Michael Goldstein said at 11:33 am on October 18th, 2012:

    Hi Sarah! Hope Bkyln is treating you well.

    As VP of quilting club, did you have a “binder of women” to consider for key leadership posts?

  4. 4: Michael Goldstein said at 11:34 am on October 18th, 2012:

    You can come back for MC 13 if you want. We’ll hold a dorm room for you.

  5. 5: Andrew said at 12:36 pm on October 18th, 2012:

    You probably already know this, and it might be in the SchoolBook article (haven’t clicked through yet), but there are generally two kinds of HS Debate: “Policy” and “Lincoln-Douglas.”

    Policy is the two person team debating you participated in, and it’s, as it name indicates, centered on policy questions — so, generally something more akin to a presidential debate. It’s also the form of debate with the most well-defined “scoring” system, which leads to all kinds of weirdness involving the speed-reading that you experienced. It’s a little absurd, in the view of one former high school debater (me).

    L-D debating centers, generally, on “values” questions. When I was in HS, I remember debating capital punishment, individual privacy, things like that. The source material in L-D tends towards Locke or Hobbes, as opposed to towards examples of policy efficacy. L-D is a one on one competition.

    They can both be really worthwhile, and both are popular for different reasons.

  6. 6: Michael Goldstein said at 12:43 pm on October 18th, 2012:

    Hi Andrew, and thanks for the note.

    You make an excellent point to contrast the 2 types.

    I think it’s akin to some of the debate on standardized tests.

    If the test leads to a bit of distortion, but mostly leads to results we genuinely value, then it’s “good.”

    If the test leads to massive distortion, then it’s “bad.”

    Ironically in the case of tests, the schools which try massive distortion — narrow test prep “strategies” — FAIL to win. Test prep does NOT typically raise scores.

    Whereas in debate, massive distortion is often indeed associated with winning.

  7. 7: Craig said at 10:08 pm on October 18th, 2012:

    Another potential teacher benefit (which I experienced when I coached debate and taught math/cs), is that teachers may learn how to better work with their classes by coaching. That is, the “coaching” analogy is different than the “teaching” analogy that most of us arrive with. Though maybe your Corp teaches that lesson independently?


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